Blowing some holes in gambling myths

[pocket5's]

When you've been around poker for as long as I have, you've heard every theory, rumor and falsehood about the game. Poker is indeed full of myths, and here are some of the big ones.

• Poker is illegal. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the U.S. government recognizes poker as a game of skill. Yes, there might be jurisdictions where playing poker for money is illegal, but there is nothing at all illegal about playing poker with friends, or even playing poker for a living.
• It takes several years to learn. It's not true, at least not anymore. Today, thanks to people like Doyle Brunson, who wrote Super System, it's easier than ever to learn how to play poker at a competitive level.
• Poker is all about bluffing. No, it's not. In fact, that's one of the big mistakes novice players make when they start out in poker. Professionals win by getting full value for their strong hands, while minimizing their losses on losing hands. Bluffing is a tool that should be used sporadically, making it that much more effective.
• It's a man's game. Hardly. We are seeing more and more women — amateurs and professionals alike — playing these days. One of the world's best players, Jennifer Harman, is a regular winner in the world's biggest cash game against the likes of Chip Reese and Phil Ivey.
• Online poker is rigged. Some people have a tendency to blame anyone but themselves. Before the arrival of online poker, complainers blamed the casino dealer for their bad luck. Online poker has become the new victim of abuse from players who would rather blame their computer than their lack of poker skills.
• Poker is gambling and you have to gamble to make it fun. Too often, poker and gambling are considered to be synonymous. Yes, poker is a game and, yes, you can gamble at it. But you can also gamble on Monopoly, hopscotch or even the flip of a coin. I know, because I've made wagers on all of the above.
• No Limit Hold'em is the most skillful form of poker. There is actually a form of poker that requires even more skill: Pot Limit Hold'em. This game gives solid players a bigger advantage because it takes away the beginner's deadly all-in weapon. It also forces more sophisticated post-flop play.
If Pot Limit Hold'em were the game played at the World Championships, you'd see less and less Cinderella stories at the final table.

• The game is all luck. This misconception comes from people who don't understand poker or haven't figured out how to win at it.
There are thousands of skilled professional poker players in the world, which distinguishes our game from other forms of casino gambling, like craps, Keno and Let it Ride. I assure you, there are no professional Let it Ride players.

• You can't beat low-limit games. I've met several people who think they can't win at low-limit tables because too many players see the flop and then stick around until the river. While a game like this will certainly increase your stack fluctuation, and might make you feel like you're less in control, there isn't a more profitable game in the house.
If you're losing in lower-limit games, playing higher limits is not the answer.

• You need a poker face. This one's probably the longest standing myth on the list. People commonly believe that you need a poker face to win. Well, watch me play on television and you'll see that I don't have a poker face at all. I'm generally joking around and making all kinds of goofy faces.

By Daniel Negreanu

[pocket5's]

• You can't beat low-limit games. I've met several people who think they can't win at low-limit tables because too many players see the flop and then stick around until the river. While a game like this will certainly increase your stack fluctuation, and might make you feel like you're less in control, there isn't a more profitable game in the house.
If you're losing in lower-limit games, playing higher limits is not the answer.

Of all the other points he makes, this is the biggest one in my opinion.

Online, low limit games are perfect for grinders like me. And maybe you too.

If you are playing the game to MAKE MONEY, and you study and understand the odds, low limit NL tables should be your bread and butter ONLINE. If you play a .25 cent .50 cent blinds table, and you sit with $10.00, your goal should be to double up, and split. Unless of course the game is well above average. Which usually is not the case. On a realistic level, with seeing hole cards/hands an average of 50+ per hour, there is no real reason you should't double up. Keeping it even more realistic, you should be making 10 bucks in about 15-20 mins. Do that twice in an hour, and your hourly rate is about 20 bucks an hour. Not bad! Not great, but hell....20 bucks an hour is a decent wage for doing something you enjoy.

Let's multiply that by say....3 tables, all low limit, all NL hold'em. If you feel comfortable multi-tableing, you could easily make $60+ an hour, times say.....4-5 hours a day, and that is nothing to sneer at either.

I am interested in your thoughts.

[Arsenal28]

I definitely agree with you on this one. Playing pretty tight and waiting to make your move seems to pay off a great deal. My biggest problem is being able to walk away after I have doubled up. I get that confident feeling and find myself playing much loser, chasing open ended straights and flushes. Before I know it I am only up a buck or so and need to spend another hour trying to double up again. Great insights pockets.

[pocket5's]

My biggest problem is being able to walk away after I have doubled up.

You have to! YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE TO!!!!

Until you can get that through your head, try this.....

Sit down and play until you double up.

Switch poker rooms the very SECOND you double up. Not tables, ROOMS!

Do that 3 times a day for a week....ONCE a day (twice if you have time)

At the end of the week, cash out all 3 poker rooms. You will see something you might not be used to seeing.

INCOME.

Once you stop looking at poker as a source of entertainment, and start looking at it as a source of INCOME, you will find it is easy to get up from those tables, and move on to the next target.

You will NOT always double up. I think you are smart enough to know this, so I apologize for saying it.....but others might not be


You will however, in the long run (use above 7 day example) make a PROFIT if you force yourself to play with discipline!!! Track the time you spend, and the amounts of your INITIAL deposit, into each room. After 7 days, you should be pleasantly surprised.

Assuming your skill level is better then the most mundane poker fish like Stuman!!!

[Highwind]

Gotta argue against everything you're saying in that last post, pocket5's.


Low limit NLHE is NOT about doubling up and "splitting," --- and completley changing poker rooms. What the hell? Why would I want to LEAVE a table where I'm winning at? Unless I have so little confidence in my poker game that I know I'm going to be outplayed eventually or make a fishy move and lose all my profit.

The only way to consistently make a profit in poker is by giving yourself an edge. In low limit poker, this requires playing more tight, and getting the best value possible for strong hands. You can do this multiple times in one session, at one or two or three tables -- in the same online poker room.

If I've found a table with at least 1 or 2 good fish practically giving away money through bad plays, or people who lose and quickly reload --- I'm staying at this table. Why would I leave a table where I know I can make money by outplaying my opponents?

Granted, most of my money comes from Omaha, but I've played enough hands of Hold'Em to realize that the best way to maximize your profit is finding a great table -- and grinding it out.

I'd honestly like to hear why you think a "run and gun" sort of technique is better for consistently winning money at low limits. Not a challenge, just an honest question.

Also, it's good to see this forum staying active. Keep posting!

[Highwind]

Originally Posted by Arsenal28

I definitely agree with you on this one. Playing pretty tight and waiting to make your move seems to pay off a great deal. My biggest problem is being able to walk away after I have doubled up. I get that confident feeling and find myself playing much loser, chasing open ended straights and flushes. Before I know it I am only up a buck or so and need to spend another hour trying to double up again. Great insights pockets.

Arsenal, your problem here is that --- from what it sounds like, your game needs a LOT of work. If your entire strategy is getting some luck by doubling up and then leaving --- you probably aren't having a majority of winning sessions at the table.

Chasing straights and flushes when you aren't getting pot odds is a sure fire way to lose money, whether you've doubled up once or are hovering around even.

Work on those fishy moves, and you'll soon be able to play comfortably without worrying about "losing" the money you got from doubling up.


Also, let me stress this: Don't think of each session at a table as a single, individual session where you make or lose money. Think of your poker game/career as one LONG session --- you can't let the results of one session change your mind about things, change the way you play.

[pocket5's]

Originally Posted by Highwind

Gotta argue against everything you're saying in that last post, pocket5's.


Low limit NLHE is NOT about doubling up and "splitting," --- and completley changing poker rooms. What the hell? Why would I want to LEAVE a table where I'm winning at? Unless I have so little confidence in my poker game that I know I'm going to be outplayed eventually or make a fishy move and lose all my profit.

The only way to consistently make a profit in poker is by giving yourself an edge. In low limit poker, this requires playing more tight, and getting the best value possible for strong hands. You can do this multiple times in one session, at one or two or three tables -- in the same online poker room.

If I've found a table with at least 1 or 2 good fish practically giving away money through bad plays, or people who lose and quickly reload --- I'm staying at this table. Why would I leave a table where I know I can make money by outplaying my opponents?

Granted, most of my money comes from Omaha, but I've played enough hands of Hold'Em to realize that the best way to maximize your profit is finding a great table -- and grinding it out.

I'd honestly like to hear why you think a "run and gun" sort of technique is better for consistently winning money at low limits. Not a challenge, just an honest question.

Also, it's good to see this forum staying active. Keep posting!

Low limit NLHE is NOT about doubling up and "splitting," --- and completley changing poker rooms. What the hell? Why would I want to LEAVE a table where I'm winning at? Unless I have so little confidence in my poker game that I know I'm going to be outplayed eventually or make a fishy move and lose all my profit.

I was attempting to address a specific question the poster asked. There is an obvious trigger that causes him to begin poor play, during a game he otherwise was doing well at. What that trigger is, I don't know. I used to suffer from the same issues, and I WAS able to identify what the problem was, and correct it. The way I did it, was to set limits for win/loss ratios, and stick to them like glue.

Once I forced myself to to adhere to a discipline, and that technique began to produce consistent profit for me, I was able to dive deeper into the problem. The problem for me, and I suspect I am not alone, was a combination of boredom, and frustration of seeing garbage pay off for stupid players. So I would figure "What the hell....it works for these guys, so it has to eventually pay off for me" So I would severely lower my starting hand qualifications, ignore position, say "Damn the odds, I will catch that card"....ect.....

Playing like that, at a low limit table, it becomes addictive. Almost like gambling. I would forget the hours and hours I have spent, studying raw theory on the game, strategy.....EVERYTHING, and before you know it, I was limping in under the gun, with a j-3 off suit, catching the 3 on the flop, with 8 other players in the hand, and thinking I should raise!!!

After a few months of "gambling" like this, I realized something. I needed to get a job!

Why????

Because I allowed myself to play poker with the same mentality as one would play a scratch off lotto ticket. PURE LUCK was my guiding light. Skill and knowledge of the game no longer seemed to be a factor in my decision making.

I took a long hard look at my game, and myself. I DO NOT want to work for someone else for the rest of my life. I WANT to be on the WPT circuit, I WANT a WSOP bracelet. These are things I will never acheive....EVER....if I continue to play this way. Not in a MILLION years! So I did the following.......

1. I stopped playing real money games for 2 weeks. I ONLY played fun money.

2. I played those fun money games the EXACT way I would play a live/real money game. (Using a reasonable set of starting hands, and becoming keenly aware of position, odds ect...)

3. I began to multi-table (Fun money). Which forced me to make my decisions faster, and based upon raw data, as opposed to allowing myself to contemplate all the other shit that fills up your mind, when you should be simply making mechanical decisions. Stuff like luck, and desire to crack a certain player for revenge over a "Bad beat" a few hands ago.

4. I tracked my playing time, wins and losses.

After I was satisfied, I started making deposits again, and playing for real money. I applied the discipline, and technique I used at fun money tables, and started to make a consistent profit/income.

It is working for me. I play, I pay my bills, I have cash in my pocket to play the underground games in my area, and I enjoy the time I spend playing poker. That is KEY for me. If this game EVER gets boring for me, and regardless of how much I earn, I will quit. I do not have the mentality to do something as a job/career that I dislike, for too long. You only live once, so you might as well enjoy what you do.

These are things that I applied to myself, and they worked. I didn't do anything spectacular, nothing groundbreaking or worth selling to noobs. It simply worked for me.

The advice I gave the poster, was to leave the poker room. For 2 reasons.

1. It forces him to play at a pre-set win/loss ratio. I know this is not a popular practice. One should ask why??? Who are the people saying it isn't??? I learned who those people are. They are the ones making money off the rest of us. Predator or prey. Which are you. We all need to face the reality that there are BETTER players then us. If you view yourself as a shark, and you are feeding on a fish.....what do you do when a MUCH BIGGER shark comes over for a bite? Do you hold your ground, and protect your dinner? Or do you go off and look for another snack somewhere else? If you truly want to improve your game, subtract ego from the equation, and the answer should become obvious. Swim away, and save that chunk of your hide the bigger shark was willing to take, in order to eat your fish. Ego says "Stay and fight" Ego says "I am just as good as you, maybe even better". But your ass (Bankroll) will say otherwise.

2. That until his discipline level increases, so that chasing a flush or straight (that odds are he won't hit) no longer is a factor in his game. And his decision making become mechanical in nature, the best bet is to completely clear his head, by removing the temptation to play poorly.

The nice thing about it.....it is EASY to do! A few clicks of the mouse, and you are in a brand new poker room, with fresh tables and players. If it works, maybe he (we) learn something. If it doesn't, well perhaps there is something else that needs addressing.

You looked at my response to his question as an above average poker player. I know you are based upon what game you like to play. Omaha 8 (hi-low) is a damn hard game to master. And if you are grinding on a game that hard, you have skill my friend. .

Try looking at his question from a perspective of frustration, and try looking at my response from the same perspective. Maybe, just maybe you will see where I was coming from.

[thestuman]

nice pts 55s..

i myself try to use that double up and leave.. it has made me some money i have not left the room just swithed tables.. i will try this next and play 3 rooms a night for a week if i can and see the results... $$$$$$

[Highwind]

You make good points, especially if the problem is discipline over a long period of time --- but most people aren't going to be able to stick to ANY strategy, including a run'n'gun one, if the main problem is they get bored a half hour after winning a big pot.

I see what you're saying more clearly now -- though I still disagree a little with the method, it seems to be working for you. I suppose quickly changing poker rooms after a big win, starting brand new could keep one's attention and force them to play like they usually do (well), it would in turn start making their responses more mechanical in nature, better set to earning a consistent profit, but I learned the same exact way -- just through trial and error, and eventually coming to the realization that if I just simply gather up the discipline to fold those poor pre-flop hands, and not chase after flushes and straights -- I'd almost ALWAYS be a winner.

That simple realization (it's especially true in a more mathmatical game such as Omaha 8/b) is enough for me to sit down for hours at the same table and play consistently until I become too hungry/tired/distracted to play my A-game.

To Arsenal -- try 55's strategy, I'm interested to see how it would work for someone over a 2-3 week period. Report back to us.

However, consider this: One of the reasons many people find themselves playing poorer online -- is, well, boredom. It's easy to get bored and start playing bad cards. It's easy to distract yourself with poker forums, the internet, IMs, etc. One of the ways I was able to keep my focus at online games and really play my best possible game (regardless of wins/losses) is shutting out everything except some fitting music.

When you play, ask yourself: How much other crap do I do online while playing poker? The answer should be NOTHING. The less you have to become distracted with, the more you can focus on the table/players/picking up on betting patterns or something. This will usually result in more focus, and less opportunities to become overconfident, and less opportunities to start playing poorly -- you know why? Cause you'll see yourself playing poorly, you'll realize it exactly, and, hopefully, you'll stop.

[thestuman]

well so far i have been able to doulbe up 5 times and not double up twice so my bank roll is climbling.. thank pocket55s i will let you know how the week turns out